Interesting debate (which hasn't ended by the way)

Following is the debate between me and some people in a particular news flash of rediff.com. I really indulged in these "practically no meaning and addabaaj" types of debate afterall a long time, thanks to the ample of free time b4 joining my new job, and the fact that I am Bengali(born debaters )... thought to store it. The debate raised over my reaction to the news by rediff, depicting a letter by former army chief and kargil war hero, General N.C.Vij to the PM Manmohan singh raising concerns over the alleged misappropriate compensation of armed forces in the latest Pay commission report.The news link is below and the posts are below it

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/apr/27letter.htm

Posts--
Shame UPA govt.
by saurabh roy on Apr 28, 2008 12:09 AM | Hide replies

A govt which has no control over rising costs, has done nothing significant for the infrastructural growth of the nation, rather closed or curbed the steps taken by previous govt., has now lost control over its bureaucrats too. Th proof is this biased pay commission report which fails to recognize the profession which often requires the highest sacrifice of life , that is the life itself. Our honorable govt. is busy with other issues of vote bank and caste based politics, its ministers are busy licking asses of a particular clan. They don't give a damn to the poor jawans who are bravely guarding the frontiers of this country, without any proper motivation from the govt side.The sane people of this nation should wake up and overthrow this government in next elections

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RE:Shame UPA govt.
by Loan Shark on Apr 28, 2008 12:17 AM | Hide message
Dude, the govt. cannot make everyone happy ... even govt. dept. and employees want more ... whether it is BJP/NDA or UPA, you have to undertsand the limitations that they have. Higher salaries mean more recovery from taxes or deficit financing or less money for developmental projects.

These guys were expecting more money for themselves, but the govt. has not given what they were expecting. UPA govt. is being fair.

RE:Shame UPA govt.
by Magnum Opus on Apr 28, 2008 12:27 AM
You obviously have any exposure to the defence forces. As a soldier wit 28 years of service (and three gallantry awards) let me assure you that we are not merely 'expecting' more money. If you think soldiers can be equated with 'everyone' then all the best!

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RE:Shame UPA govt.
by Loan Shark on Apr 28, 2008 12:35 AM | Hide message
First, thanks for your great service to our nation. I mean it.

Yes, soldiers are like anyone else. They (soldiers) have chosen to be in military, there is no forcible draft in India. No one put a gun to their head to join the military. They have chosen to fight for their motherland for which they deserve our gratitude. But, when you are in it just for the money, you are like everyone else.

Similarly, police officers put their life on line. Is there contribution less than that of soldiers? Now, teachers are also building this nation. Aren't they? so is their contribution any less? how about engineers and doctors? the list is long.

RE:Shame UPA govt.
by rushil noronha on Apr 28, 2008 12:46 AM
The UPA government is being fair?????try telling that to a jawan who risks his life everyday (so that you have enough time and peace of mind to sit and write nonsense here)for a partly Rs7000 a month.And even after that if you feel that the 6th pay commision is justified, perhaps you should consider hanging yourself because clearly, you lack all shame requiste in a human being.

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RE:Shame UPA govt.
by Loan Shark on Apr 28, 2008 12:51 AM
LOL .. you haven't seen those queues of people lining up in front of army recruitment offices everyday ... if pay in army were lower than what people can conveniently make otherwise, those lines would be missing.

7,000 is not a small amount when most of your living expenses are borne by the govt. If the soldiers are in the army for money, they are in the wrong place. They better stay away and work in farm or factories ... but then most like the cushy army lifestyle.

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RE:Shame UPA govt.
by Loan Shark on Apr 28, 2008 12:18 AM
costs are rising all over the world ... In India salaries are rising too. People are reposting salary increases of 20-30% every year in India, so why complain when inflation is at 7%

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RE:Shame UPA govt.
by saurabh roy on Apr 28, 2008 12:36 AM
Dude, the prise are rising all over the world but in case u haven't noticed hoarding is creating artificial price as well, (it was in news recently)and also there is something known as subsidy, and before u start crying foul over taxes or deficit financing or less money for developmental projects, lemme tell you, national security is of supreme importance and no compromise should be made on that account, especially in a country like ours which has so hostile neighborhood. What if a massive insurgency operation is launched in kashmir valley rt now, do u expect the jawans to fight with this level of motivation. Things like tax, burden on Reserve bank etc do not pacify the person who goes out on a job without knowing that he would return home or not, I don't see anything wrong if they expected more from the govt. Justify ur tax and capital crap to a jawan posted in siachin where the temperature goes as horrible as -40 degrees

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RE:RE:Shame UPA govt.
by Loan Shark on Apr 28, 2008 12:43 AM | Hide message
LOL ... national security will not improve just because soldiers are being paid more. The soldiers will still to their best of abilities at the current pay levels .... if the soldiers are in the army for the money and perks, then they are in the wrong place.

already, Indian army officers and jawans get a lot of perks ... like tax free purchases, orderlies for their kitchen and yard work, flexible working hours ... all this with no real schedules or deadlines to meet.

don't be under the impression that national security is under threat because jawans/officers will not give their best because they are under paid.

This message has been reported for abuse. The moderator's final decision is awaited.

RE:Shame UPA govt.
by saurabh roy on Apr 28, 2008 12:52 AM
You don't get it, do you?? Its not merely about getting paid or money or perks,human life is beyond any compensation...its about motivation, the report has given an impression as if that we don't respect the work done by them, and consider them non important. A soldier risk his life not only because he has a flare or the profession but because he thinks that he command respect in the nation for the job he is doing. The report has taken away tht impression from them, and the recent downfall in the army intake as well as rising VRS application only highlight the disappointment and de-motivation for the forces

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RE:RE:Shame UPA govt.
by Loan Shark on Apr 28, 2008 12:57 AM
there is risk in every job ... you work in electricity department on power grids, there is risk to life. you work as cop, there is risk to life. you work as a vigilance officer in govt., there is risk to life. you work as forest ranger, there is risk to life. you go out to work in your car or mobike, there is risk to life.

rising VRS application is because the govt. is liberal on the VRS payout and these officers think that they can move to private sector, as administrative officers, security incharge or something else and make more money ... these people are looking for way out so they can make more money ... not because they are disappointed with the system.

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RE:Shame UPA govt.
by saurabh roy on Apr 28, 2008 01:08 AM
What u say would look good in a school debate, but kindly be logical, our concern is not the reason for the current downward scenario in terms of affinity and attraction in armed forces, but its about its consequences. Say that "risk is everywhere" (so we don't give u a damn) thing to a army officer, what if he says "ok Mr I leave this job for better private offers, its bad ethicaly , but my life and I need money"?? who will guard the frontiers then, offcourse ppl will still join army, and make long queues, (owing to our mighty unemployed population )but that would be compromised and substandard personnel, who is here just becoz he has nowhere else to go

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